Well written just-n. Very interesting story and I agree that reading the Bible in context without WT spin gives you a completely different take on things.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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29
Those that just one day - were not there anymore
by just n from bethel ini, like otwo in another thread, never really had a bad experience with jws.
i never had any case of molestation come up in the the many congregations i served in.
i never had any major beefs with any elder body.
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Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status
by Mattieu injust another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.
now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.
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Doubting Bro
I'm not saying that religion doesn't have value nor am I religiously intolerant. People should be able to worship as they see fit as long as no one else's right to believe what they want is infringed on and no one is harmed.
Yet, businesses add value to society, don't they? Look at how much longer people live now, how much more comfortable many people live as compared with even 50 years ago. Just because something adds value to society doesn't mean that it should be exempt from taxes. If you follow that logic, then businesses should also be exempt from taxes.
Taxing profits from religious organizations is not even close to banning religion. It does remove preferential treatment by government for religious entities.
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Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status
by Mattieu injust another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.
now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.
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Doubting Bro
They all have a surplus 10 Euro's
Mr A (an atheist) puts it in his bank getting interest. (doesn't pay further tax on it)
Mr B ( a catholic) Puts it in a passing donation plate at his church. (Doesn't pay tax on it)
Mr c (a witness) puts it in a donation box at the back of the kingdom Hall. (The money gets taxed because france doesn't like witnesses)
how is this scenario in anyway fair and honest?
First of all, Mr. A does pay further tax on the 10 Euro's because interest (read profit) is taxable income.
My particular arguement is that both B & C organizations should pay taxes on their profits. Advocating a particular belief system is not a charitable act that should be subsidized by the government by giving preferential treatment. I think all religious organizations should be held to the same standard for sure. If you're going to place a tax on profits of Scientology, JW, LDS, then you should also do so for Catholic, Baptist, Hindu, Muslim, etc.
There is a huge difference between taxing a corporate entity and taxing a belief system. If a world wide tax were placed on the WTS, would that change your JW belief? Would it stop you from getting together and worshiping? Maybe it would need to be smaller groups in private homes but I fail to see how that would stop an individual's belief system.
People can have whatever spiritual goals they want and can talk to whoever would like to listen about whatever they want. But, why should they be given preferential treatment by being exempt from paying taxes.
I know, let's tax all religions except for the WTS since all of their clergy are living a lavish lifestyle!
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Was it ever in your heart?
by mamalove ini don't think it ever was in my heart, that is why i have found it relatively easy to leave and not be scared of the fear belief system.
i feel kind of bad for people here who were so immersed that they still get these weird twinges of armageddon fears, etc.
that has to be difficult to still have that looming feeling.
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Doubting Bro
I bought it hook, line, and sinker. Even when I had doubts about particular teachings, I always thought Jehovah would take care of it in his own time. I honestly thought that God was using the org and that anything I did for it was in His service.
Wow I'm stupid! Tell you what, I won't EVER get fooled on that sort of claim again.
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Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status
by Mattieu injust another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.
now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.
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Doubting Bro
debator - you do realize we're talking about taxing profits, right? Oh, at least in the US, not only does the donation not get taxed, you don't pay taxes on the money you donate to a not-for profit (including religions). You can write off those donations. So your argument (again at least in the US) that you've already paid taxes on that money is not accurate.
For example, I pay taxes on my income. Then I purchase a good or service and pay yet another tax. But, the business also has to pay taxes on it's profits. The government takes multiple bites.
So are you advocating that no business pay taxes because the individual already pays income taxes? That's great if you're a business but if you think the tax burden is bad now, then think about what it would be without corporate entities paying taxes.
I think governments take way too much of my money as it is, but the world's religions often abuse their not for profit status (in my opinion). I do agree that if you tax one religion, then you should tax them all. Quite frankly, JWs and other fringe groups are really small potatoes.
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153
Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status
by Mattieu injust another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.
now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.
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Doubting Bro
Didn't Jesus say to render Caesar's things to Caesar? Didn't Jesus actually pay the head tax (although the money was found in a fish's mouth)?
So, explain again why ANY religion that claims to follow Christ would be so greedy as to not render a tax when due when the founder of the religion COMMANDED that they do so?
Taxing religious organization's profits is the same as taxing any other entity. Are you telling me that religions don't benefit from governmental services? If a KH, church, or any other building used for religious purposes was burning down, don't tax supported firemen drive tax supported firetrucks on tax supported roads to put out the fire?
Freedom of religious does not equate with freedom from paying taxes any more than my freedom of speech is hindered by my paying taxes.
Rutherford was right, "religion is a snare and a racket".
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Doubting Bro
In our area, it really depends. Its so rare that I've heard of someone being removed as an unbaptised publisher. It's probably been 5 years since the last time I've heard such an announcement. No one treated that person (a kid who got in trouble) any differently.
Inactive JWs around here are love bombed more than anything.
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To serving elders and anyone else who went to the SM this week ...
by wannabefree injw serving elders ... did any of you have to handle the part at the sm this week on why jehovah's witnesses are not a false prophet?.
this part made me livid.
our most corporate elder handled this part and i felt my self wanting to refute everything he said.
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Doubting Bro
I happily missed it this week but I'm sure the presentation was dry and boring!!
It did seem oddly placed. I could see this being a #3 talk or something but not a SM part. Sometimes they pick the oddest things. It does make me wonder if something is going on now the Jaracz is dead.
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WTS and the Corporate Model
by stuckinamovement ini came to the belated realization that the way the org is structured is simply based on the classic 1950's corporate model.
note the similarities.
they are just another failing business.. board of directors- governing body.
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Doubting Bro
SIAM - The only point that I disagree with is that the WTS does not realize there is a cancer and that the future viability of the org is at stake. All the minor changes that have been made both procedurally (cutting Awake to once a month, having a study WT, consolidating the CBS with the TMS/SM, cutting the PT to 1/2 hour, etc) as well as doctrinally (2 changes in the last 3 years regarding what Jesus "evidently" meant when he said "this generation will not pass away, dropping the 1935 annointed cut-off, etc) show me that they realize there are issues. They somehow think that it's the world that is causing folks to begin to doubt, to step down or not reach out, to become inactive. They can't see that it's the way they act, the demands for endless service, the guilt they put on folks for not doing enough, and the harmful shunning that splits friends and families that is really causing the decline. They're cutting costs and changing doctrine when they have no other choice. They seem to be grasping at straws for an answer.
To me, the reason most businesses fail is not that they don't reconize there are problems but they either 1) incorrectly identify the source and/or 2) the actions they take to address the problems don't work (even if the correct source is identified).
I totally agree with you that in order to survive long term, the WTS will need to change their business model to give people what they want out of a religious community. If they took an honest look at themselves, reduced the controlling behavior by dropping the whole DF/DA structure or at least the shunning aspect of it, moved more to the mainstream in terms of things like blood (making it a matter of conscious) and make the meetings less like corporate sales meetings and more like religious services catering to the needs of their flock (like break out sessions for kids, moms, dads, singles, so on and so forth). Also, instead of promoting the door to door work that is basically one of the greatest wastes of time in a JW's life, they could instead promote charity work and community service to spread the Word.
Time and time again on this board, it's the lack of love and the lack of a feeling of community that really pushs people to doubt. Of course, the doctrinal issues are readily apparent when you look at them with an open mind. But, I really think its the behavior of others that allows members to take a hard look at what the WTS teaches.
I'll bet if they made it more user friendly, the doctrinal issues would be a lot less harmful to them.
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Doubting Bro
I wish the US would require this!!
Nice profit - 3.3m pounds in 2009 but lower than the 2008 profits of 5.6m in 2008. I wonder what the ye 8-30-10 will look like? If Britian is indicative of how the rest of the WTS is doing financially, I think they're going to be around a long time. It seems like they're staying ahead at the moment the 2009 voluntary contributions were up from 11.4m pounds to 12.2m. Expenses really jumped but it looks like that's due to buidling a branch or something in Nigeria (a country where they're growing).
Interesting stuff, thanks for the link.